What is the Worst Engine Made by a Usually Reliable Company?

"Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies" (jordanwphillips)
07/22/2014 at 17:46 • Filed to: None

My choice is the 3VZE 3.0L V6 by Toyota. They eat head gaskets like they are as cheap as gas, which the engine vaporizes even quicker. My guess at why they eat head gaskets, is the idiotic exhaust collector design. Instead of collecting the exhaust below the engine, the collector is at the center of the back of the engine where the aluminum heads and iron block meet. It also was designed for trucks, so why did they design the power to come at such high RPM's.

What do you think that title goes to?

DISCUSSION (64)

Mr. Ontop, No Strokes, No Smokes...Goes Fast. > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
07/22/2014 at 17:48

My dad had a saying about this. It was buy Big American Cars or buy Small Japanese cars...The other way around just doesn't work.

HammerheadFistpunch > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
07/22/2014 at 17:48

The 3VZE eats HG's for the same reason the 1FZ-FE does: asbestos, they have none. This was the time frame they were forced to stop using asbestos in HG's and the replacement gaskets were junk. I actually vote the 1MZ-FE, over rated (220 hp dropped to 190) and had a propensity for sludge and blown valve guides.

bob and john > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
07/22/2014 at 17:48

from what I understand one of the older merc diesels was a REALLY bad engine (IIRC, it has 3.5 or 3.7L of displacement)

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
07/22/2014 at 17:49

Everyone says that the drivetrain of a 1st gen S80 T6, from a maker legendary for its reliability, was kind of crap.

Abject_Penitent > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
07/22/2014 at 17:50

Kinja'd!!!

Because battlefield 4 was less stable than my ex-girlfriend.

RazoE > HammerheadFistpunch
07/22/2014 at 17:50

the 7MGE/GTE twins were affected as well. Blown headgaskets were guaranteed.

What happened is the headgasket material was changed (as you mentioned, from asbestos), but the headbolts weren't tightened down more.

Textured Soy Protein > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
07/22/2014 at 17:52

Toyota 7M-GE and 7M-GTE inline sixes left the factory with improperly torqued head bolts which led to prematurely blown headgaskets and other assorted problems.

Kinja'd!!!

Also Honda V6s from the late 90s thru early-mid 00s have transmissions that like to self-destruct, but I guess that's not technically an engine.

dogisbadob > bob and john
07/22/2014 at 17:52

Yup, the OM606

For Sweden > sm70- why not Duesenberg?
07/22/2014 at 17:53

The non-turbo 2.9 as well; the problem was a weak transmission. This was fixed in 2003 (I think; may have been 2002 or 2004).

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > HammerheadFistpunch
07/22/2014 at 17:53

That would make sense, but according to a lot of people, replacing the manifolds for headers solves the issue.

No Prius Needed > Abject_Penitent
07/22/2014 at 17:53

It was so bad I could only play the campaign... Recker pls.

EL_ULY > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
07/22/2014 at 17:53

Toyota 3GR yuck

GhostZ > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
07/22/2014 at 17:54

Kinja'd!!!

This is every RX-8 owner's nightmare.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Mr. Ontop, No Strokes, No Smokes...Goes Fast.
07/22/2014 at 17:55

Well, the Japanese make pretty good big cars now.

lone_liberal > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
07/22/2014 at 17:55

The Ford (Navistar) 6.0 diesel. It had many things wrong with it, head bolts, EGR, FICM, etc. I know this because my dad was thinking of buying one and I remembered that they had issues and looked them up in order to warn him off. He bought it two weeks ago.

GhostZ > Mr. Ontop, No Strokes, No Smokes...Goes Fast.
07/22/2014 at 17:56

So true. The smallest "reliable" US motor before the 80s was the Ford 250 inline six, which came in at.... 4.1 liters. In its smallest version. Everything smaller was build so cheaply that they fell apart.

Mr. Ontop, No Strokes, No Smokes...Goes Fast. > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
07/22/2014 at 17:56

My dad has been dead a while so, it might change, but it still rings true enough for the kinds of cars I'm interested in.

HammerheadFistpunch > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
07/22/2014 at 17:58

Cracked Manafolds are also common on Toyota motors from this time, I wouldn't be suprised if a cracked manafold is overheating the back of the gasket.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > lone_liberal
07/22/2014 at 17:58

2005-07 the problems were fixed, just the name was already ruined. With an aftermarket EGR or delete and head studs, they are pretty decent engines. The 2006 and 2007 model years had less recalls than any year of the perfect 7.3 Powerstroke.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > HammerheadFistpunch
07/22/2014 at 18:01

The fact that a collector sits in a very confined space at the back of the engine would do a number on bad headgaskets.

Cé hé sin > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
07/22/2014 at 18:02

Well, this one obviously. Twin rotor Wankel from the NSU Ro80. At one stage it was usual to replace the engine before one would have normally changed the plugs.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > For Sweden
07/22/2014 at 18:02

Didn't they have GM sourced transmissions? Wasn't it a problem on the XC90's as well?

HammerheadFistpunch > EL_ULY
07/22/2014 at 18:03

The FSE or the FE? The FE was based on the 2GR-FE which is damn near bulletproof.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > GhostZ
07/22/2014 at 18:03

That's why I don't understand the rotary hype. Sure it is small and makes a decent amount of power, but at the expense of reliability and economy.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Cé hé sin
07/22/2014 at 18:05

Not technically a reliable company.

dogisbadob > HammerheadFistpunch
07/22/2014 at 18:05

It's because of the iron block and aluminum head combo. The two dissimilar metals expand at different rates. A LOT of iron/alum engines have head gasket issues for this reason.

The 97-01 1MZ was the worst. The ones before and after that time frame don;t have sludge issues. The reason for the sludge is that Toyota made the oil passages smaller during the years that have issues. Only using synthetic oil, and replacing the PCV valve every oil change also helps.

That said, all of Toyota's transverse V6's are bad because they tilt the engine back 15 degrees or so, and then pile EVERYTHING on top of the rear bank of cylinders, including running a wiring harness over the rear bank. WTF?

RazoE > GhostZ
07/22/2014 at 18:07

What is that?!?

For Sweden > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
07/22/2014 at 18:08

Yes

GhostZ > RazoE
07/22/2014 at 18:10

Someone replacing the bane of Mazda's existence. Apex seals.

GhostZ > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
07/22/2014 at 18:10

It's like an Axial engine. Significantly lighter and more compact than a piston engine... but doesn't last long enough to be used in a production car.

dogisbadob > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
07/22/2014 at 18:12

While any of Toyota's transverse V6's are a good answer (and this is coming from a 1MZ owner), and someone else already said the 97-01 1MZ, which I was going to say.

But I'll go with Honda's H22 engine. V8 gas mileage, Wankel oil consumption, because the FRM cylinder liners were made in batches, and quality control was inconsistent. That is, some batches will have the aforementioned oil burning, and some will be absolutely fine. The non-VTEC H23 and B21A also had the FRM liner and had milder oil burning issues

The 3VZ had to be tilted backwards to fit in the Camry because it's so tall (due to being designed for a truck like you said in the OP). The SOHC 3VZ-E that went into the 4Runner was even worse in terms of reliability, but at least it isn't transversely mounted!

Unfortunately the 1MZ is also tilted backwards, and equally difficult to work on.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > For Sweden
07/22/2014 at 18:13

That explains it all.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > GhostZ
07/22/2014 at 18:14

So pretty much pointless.

GhostZ > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
07/22/2014 at 18:14

There's a reason axial engines are only really used in torpedoes.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > dogisbadob
07/22/2014 at 18:15

It isn't tilted or transverse, but they made up for that with vacuum tubes...everywhere.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > GhostZ
07/22/2014 at 18:15

One use only.

lone_liberal > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
07/22/2014 at 18:23

The one he bought is, of course, an early model. I can't remember if it's 2004 or 2005. Hopefully being that old and with 130k miles on it, the problems have already surfaced and been fixed.

Saracen > RazoE
07/22/2014 at 18:31

broken apex seal.

EL_ULY > HammerheadFistpunch
07/22/2014 at 18:38

3GR FSE.

recalls

*VVT i cam gears 2 or 3 times

*direct injector rails

*valve springs

*piston rings!

We had brand new 2006 GS300 (the only year for the 3GR FSE in any Lexus) and after 8,000 miles, the valves looked like they has 600,000 miles on them. Some came in for front timing cover leaks. Huge job, had to drop drivetrain as well. Going WOT almost guaranteed a CEL because of the carbon build up. After 100k, the consumed oil like a mofo. Water pumps leakedlike crazy. That magic pink crust build up was a dead giveaway.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > lone_liberal
07/22/2014 at 18:38

Just make sure he doesn't over baby it, as in rev it out every once in a while. The VGT's need it. Maintain it like he's never done anything before though.

EL_ULY > HammerheadFistpunch
07/22/2014 at 18:40

other recalls on that 2006 GS300 were

*rear brake caliper boots

*steering rack

*a/c evap.

HammerheadFistpunch > EL_ULY
07/22/2014 at 18:41

Ah, I figured it would have been the FSE

Loping Camshaft > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
07/22/2014 at 18:46

They also are loud as hell and rev pretty high too. People like the rotary because it's something completely different and totally unique in modern cars. I wouldn't want a daily driver with one and unless I had a pristine, collector quality car, I would probably want a LS V8 in an RX-7/8. Hence NoRotors .

camaroboy68ss > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
07/22/2014 at 18:48

the Chevy sleeveless aluminum 4 bangers stuck in Vegas. What a pile of garbage the pistons would chew the block. Usually a Chevy engine is almost bulletproof stock. The stove bolt 6 lasted decades, the ever faithful small block Chevy, the LS series of motors. All of these are great reliable motors.

lone_liberal > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
07/22/2014 at 18:51

I'll tell him that next time I see him. It probably won't break his heart to get on it a bit.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > lone_liberal
07/22/2014 at 18:55

I would do a little research on it first, but I've heard that helps with saving the turbo at least. Head gaskets are just a waiting game, unless it has been bulletproofed. Usually when it has, that is a sellers big selling point though.

ranwhenparked > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
07/22/2014 at 18:57

To be fair, pre-rotary NSUs didn't have any worse a reliability record than any other company.

webmonkees > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
07/22/2014 at 19:10

EJ25. Very uncharacteristic of Subaru, but the basic rule is if you want one of those, see when the last head gasket/pulley change was. Or find a EJ22.

Otherwise it's fine. 2-300k but you'll need to know how the owner's last 70K have been maintenance-wise.

NahBroImSweet > Abject_Penitent
07/22/2014 at 19:46

And this ain't even a joke.

Console freezing every 3-4 games. Screen black outs. Spawning without weapons.

Spawning to invisible soldiers. Etc

Axel-Ripper > lone_liberal
07/22/2014 at 20:05

According to my diesel mechanic father-in-law, they're not bad motors if you leave them alone and don't try towing anything too big with them. If you push them too hard or try to get any more power than stock out of them they're time bombs.

Brian, The Life of > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
07/22/2014 at 20:29

Is BMW considered a "reliable company?" If so, I'd like to throw their M70 under the bus for being a complex turd and a terrible idea.

unpredictable_swerve > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
07/22/2014 at 20:30

i agree with the OP. I've made my hate for the 3VZ-FE known around here, I've owned enough to know better, and still bought them. Finally learned me lesson. Early-mid 90s Toyota? Keep it an iron block 4cyl manual. The 3.4l 5VZ-FE is wonderful though, my brother has one that is 230k+ daily driver, drives the absolute crap out of it too.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > unpredictable_swerve
07/22/2014 at 20:46

The 3VZE is like the 22R (flamesuit on) in that it is reliable(not good) until a 100k miles when it's not. The 22R is just easy and cheap to fix.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Brian, The Life of
07/22/2014 at 20:49

I know it requires a flamesuit, but I see in no way BMW's being reliable, at least in the last 20 years. If it costs more to maintain and fix small things than it does to rebuild a non-premium car engine, then it is not reliable.

unpredictable_swerve > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
07/22/2014 at 21:00

hey now, I LIKE the 22R/RE. Just don't be dumb and boost it or punch it out. Its one of those engines that only needs to be used to get from a to b, slowly. It gets decent gas mileage, doesn't break so long as there is oil and antifreeze in there somewhere, and has no illusions about what it is. I ran one to 326k (yes, miles not kilometers.) Before I SOLD it. Yes, still running, still passing VA inspection, still easily driveable. Last I know, it was in north Carolina driving around (this is about 5 years later).

Its not fast, its not pretty, it doesn't sound cool, you can't do much to it, and that's exactly how it should be. Leave it alone, drive it decently, and just keep up on maintaince. You want cool and reliable? Do a 3S-GTE, those are awesome. Have room and want the same? 1UZ-FE or 1/2JZ-GTE. I want a 90-93 Toyota pickup (2WD) with the 22R/5spd combo as a daily.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > unpredictable_swerve
07/22/2014 at 22:05

I just never see the 326k mile engines. There are plenty of trucks that last that long, but 95% of the time the engine is on it's 3rd rebuild. If you don't count head gaskets as rebuilds, they can last just as long.

v8corvairpickup > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
07/22/2014 at 22:18

I nominate the Ford 2.5 HSC from the first Generation Taurus. 88 hp of nothing trying to move a 3050 pound car with a 3 speed slusher. Could never get more than 20 mpg from that '87 Taurus. I remember one of the car rags calling it a "Sport Sedan that forgot the sport."

Brian, The Life of > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
07/22/2014 at 22:32

My personal BMW experience is limited to, but very deep in, my e12 Lemons car. I know the M30 series very well, the other contemporary motors by osmosis and from researching potential transplants. I think those old motors were equal to other performance-oriented lines of the day for reliability. The M70 was an abortion in comparison.

Brian, The Life of > Mr. Ontop, No Strokes, No Smokes...Goes Fast.
07/22/2014 at 22:42

That was safe advice back in the '80s.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Brian, The Life of
07/22/2014 at 23:00

As I said, in the past 20 years.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > GhostZ
07/23/2014 at 00:18

The Chrysler Slant Six is widely regarded as indestructible and came is 2.5L form. -_-

unpredictable_swerve > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
07/23/2014 at 08:43

thats because people don't take care of their stuff as well anymore. I know 3 people with brand new cars that never changed their oil, one of them seized the engine in their car, the others got their oil changed right after that. This is around 16k miles on an oil change! People dont see a pressing need for them to maintain their vehicles because "it runs fine" or "I use synthetic oil, you can do that" even though they have no clue what is actually in the car.

Mr. Ontop, No Strokes, No Smokes...Goes Fast. > Brian, The Life of
07/23/2014 at 09:56

In my opinion, it was pretty good advice up until about 10 years ago.

GhostZ > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent
07/23/2014 at 10:27

Didn't think the slant six was considered reliable, but I don't know much about them so I'll take your word for it.